NLP Academy Forums

Michael,
This thread is a branch springing from Suzy’s “what’s the intention” thread. I believe branching helps better in maintaining its clarity than posting my question there.
How would you specify the differences between trance and HP states? I am interested in your description, ie the way you see it.
Dymitr

Hey Dymitr.

We’ve just spent 4 days with Stephen Gilligan exploring ‘generative trance’...

My perspective is that ‘trance’ is another way of saying ‘altered state’.

And so… which ‘altered’ state specifically did you want to compare with a HP state?

x S

Hi
My intention was to take in the deep structure of Michael’s statement, as he made the distinction between HP and altered states. Or, maybe, I’ve misunderstood him…

I recall John G. responding to a similar question at the State Mastery course in Aix.  Hopefully my interpretation is an accurate one.

John compared a HP state to the ‘type’ of state he is in when rock climbing and this is a state of full awareness in order to make ongoing simultaneous decisions (which rock to take hold of, where next to place his left foot, etc.) in order to stay alive.

While playing an Alphabet game is possibly not life threatening; like climbing, it takes conscious awareness to play the game. 

I’ve heard some people call a HP state ‘flow’.  I like this definition of a HP state.  To me a HP or flow state is a conscious state with an added element of trust in the uc to provide the resources stored within for excellent performance. 

OTOH, trance is much different than HP/flow for the reason that the conscious is temporarily not engaged and the person is not aware of their surroundings. 

You will find many excellent examples of the difference amongst high performance athletes.  I wrote an article with an example of what happens when an athlete competes in a ‘trance state’.  Let me know if you’d like to read it.

Your thoughts?

Cheers,
Jacquie

Hi
I would definitely like to read your article.
I need some time to disentangle my thoughts…
I’ll come back as soon as they become presentable
Cheers
Dymitr

First of all, I assume that you use the term ‘full awareness’ to refer to the awareness operating at least close to its maximal available power, not to the state of being aware of everything around.
Secondly, I assume you think about the ‘flow’ as a state in which one consciously controls complex chunks of behaviour, letting the uncoscious mind take care for the details. Anyway, the conscious mind is involved in the process.
Thirdly, my interpretation of your remark about the absence of the conscious is twofold:1) it is focused on the internal, not external data; 2) it is difficult or not possible for the person to recall anything from the time they were in trance.
I’ll be grateful if you tell me whether and/or where I missed your point or how I distorted it.
Dymitr

Dymitr,

Being that states are iconic representations and language is digital, I don’t think effectively ‘defining’ states with words is entirely possible.

On the other hand, ‘describing’ states could be possible and each person will probably have a different description for their own states. 

Cheers,
Jacquie

Jacquie,

Your aim is not clear for me…
Best

Dymitr

PS - My work forces me to search for and find a common description of really fleeting subjective experiences. I brought this habit here without warning - I am sorry. Anyway, I don’t recall any example of failure provided that both parties want to follow a simple trial-and-error procedure and persist in it (an act of observation changes the object, of course ). I have never done it online, however…