NLP Academy Forums

nj, Thank you for a very detailed response - as dymitr said ...“I have to think about it”.

dymitr, thanks for your repeated offers that I should contribute, however a little beyond my level! )

Dymitr - I’ve been away from the forum for eons, but had a quick scan read of this thread which is very enjoyable return gift but a bit too deep for a brisk read!

However, in wafting my eyes across your amended proposition (following nj’s post) it put me in mind of some ‘games’ we played at the Sylvia Young theatre school. Last year at a beginner’s evening acting course, one of the warmup exercises was people standing in a circle and ‘randomly’ turning to face one person (at first with whole body, progressing to just eyes) and saying someone else’s name I think?? Maybe the person to the left? All confusing at the time but left people both relaxed and effervescent. Quite lovely actually. I think they use a book from which they pick some games to break the ice - I’ll try and track down what it’s called - it might give a few more ideas.

x

njsc,

I am really enthusiastic about your cellphone-Google joke. It has in fact opened an entirely unexpected field for me and I find it a truly valuable contribution to the phase one. I had never considered using internet for any live NLP exercise before your remark.
The last version of the game I proposed fits actually pretty well if one wants to play it online. So we, the members of this forum, could try it out!
The main idea, inspired by your remark, is to have a circular video connection, ie that I see somebody doing the exercise in front of the webcam while that person watches somebody else doing that exercise in front of the webcam… and so on… and at the and of this chain there is a person watching me doing that exercise. We could also prevent a (long distance) connection delay by introducing a synchronised ticking clock keeping everybody in the same rhythm. An alternative idea is to use the delay (maybe multiplying it) and have a synchronous movement with a previous movement of the person our own movements depend on. The exemplary set of rules would then look like:

L?
  LL

L?
  RL

L?
  BR

R?
  LR

R?
  RB

R?
  BB

B?
  LB

B?
  RR

B?
  BL

So, to explain the symbols: ‘?’ represents the movement of the other person occuring at the same time as our previous movement, ‘R’ stands for ‘right’, ‘L’ for ‘left’ and ‘B’ for ‘both’ or ‘together’, top lines represent our neighbour movements, lower lines our own movements, and time goes to the right while symbols on the same vertical line are symultaneous. Let’s take the third rule as an example: our (lower line) present (rightmost letter) movement is R; our previous movement is B, we however cannot react on the previous movement of our neighbour because of the delay – it appears on our screen at the same time as we do ‘R’, so we base our reaction on our previous (B) and our online neighbour’s next previous movement, which is in this case L.
We might add another rule: if there is only a single input, ie if we have an access only to our own previous movement or only to the other person’s movement because we haven’t done any, we simply repeat what we have done or seen. ‘?’ stands this time for the movement which is missing. In the following evolution person 1 starts the game and others wait for an external input:

9   ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ?RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRLBRLBBB LBRRLBLBBBBLRLRR
1   RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBRRBRRRRLBBBRRLBLBLLRL
2   ? ? RBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBLBLBL BLBLBLBL BLBLBLRBLRBBBRRRRBBRRLBRL
3   ? ? ? ? RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRLBBLLBRRLBR RLBRRLBRBLLRRRRBBBBLBBBRR
4   ? ? ? ? ? ? RBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBLBRLBBBRRBBRRBBRRBLLLRBBBLBLBRRRR
5   ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRLBBRRRRBBLBBBLBBBLLLLRRRRLBRRBB
6   ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? RBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBRRRBBBBLBRRRRLBLBRLLLRBBBRRBB
7   ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBBBLBLBRRBBBBRRLBBRLLRRRRBB
8   ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? RBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBLBLLBRRBBLBLBBBRRRBRLRBBB

We see the same problem of letter arrangement as in my previous longer post. Maybe we’ll find the solution in the following substitution:

?=>_
L=>*
R=>#
B=>$

The exemplary set of rules given above will then look as given bellow:

*_
  **

*_
  #*

*_
  $#

#_
  *#

#_
  #$

#_
  $$

$_
  *$

$_
  ##

$_
  $*

And respectively the evolution of the game with the given initial condition is going to be represented by the following arrangement of symbols:

9   ________________###################*$#*$$$*$##*$*$$$$*#*##
1   ##################$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$##$####*$$$##*$*$**#*
2   __#$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$*$*$*$*$*$*$*$*$*$*#$*#$$$####$$##*$#*
3   ____##################*$$**$##*$##*$##*$#$**####$$$$*$$$##
4   ______#$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$*$#*$$$##$$##$$##$***#$$$*$*$####
5   ________###################*$$####$$*$$$*$$$****####*$##$$
6   __________#$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$###$$$$*$####*$*$#***#$$$##$$
7   ____________###################$$$*$*$##$$$$##*$$#**####$$
8   ______________#$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$*$**$##$$*$*$$$###$#*#$$$

I guess the apparent randomisation of the movements of each person is visible and the working mechanism is easy to follow this time at least in the attachment. 56 steps of evolution of the game are shown.

The evolution shown is maybe a bit boring at the beginning and certainly unbalanced: the first ‘left’ movement appears for the first person in the 45th step! This is however based on the assumption that no mistake has been made before. So earlier randomisation would prove the presence of mistakes (or I have made some).

A slight modification of the additional rule would balance frequences of different movements appearances very easily: we could go for left, right and together (both) in turn, if there were single input:

9   ________________$$#*$$##$$##*##*#$**#$**$##*$**##$*#**##**$*$*$#**$#*$**$#**$
1   *#$*#$*#$*#$*#$*#$*$$$*#$$*#$$#$$#$***##**$$$##**#$**#**#$#*$##*$$#*$$##**$$#
2   __#$**##*##*##*##*##*$*#*###*###$*$$****#$#*$*$$$#*##**#**##$##$$###$###$$#*$
3   ____$***$$#$$#$$#$$#$$*#*#*#$$#$$$**$*****##$##*$*$$#$$#*#**#$*#$*$$$$*#$$*$$
4   ______****$*###$*$$*$$*#*#*#*###$*$***$#****#$*#$##*$*###$#$#*##*##*$*$**###*
5   ________#***$#$$$**$**$**#*#*#*#$$**$#**$$#***##*##$$##*#$$*##$#$$#$$##*$#*#$
6   __________$#**$$*$***$#*$#*#*#*#*####*$$#*$*#***#$#$$*$$$#$*$#$$*###$*$$$##$#
7   ____________*#**$**$#**$$##$#$#$#$#$$$$###$##*#***##$*$####$**$$*$#$$$**$*$$$
8   ______________##**$#*$$#*$*#$*##$*##$*$*$$$$*#$#$#**#$**$$$$$***$**$$*$***$##

77 steps of the evolution of the game are shown but I had to reduce this number in the attachment.

Whatever movements (delayed or not) are subjectively sychronised we name aloud the movement of the person we are watching on screen during the game. To add a little more confusion we can say ‘star’, ‘pound’ and ‘dollar’ instead of ‘left’, ‘right’ and ‘together’ Or we can set up certain rule or rules for giving wrong names to the movements.

There are of course some problems left to solve and I hope either minor adjustments or entirely new concept, or, last but definitely not least, some vague hunches will be presented on this forum For your internet half-hunch – chapeau bas

Dymitr

Hobgoblin – I am going to respect whatever decision you are going to take. But… as you can see the difference between njsc having joked or not really makes a difference…
Hoping for more restricted inner censorship
Dymitr

Suzy - thanks a lot!
Awaiting it
d

Hobgoblin - I have thought a bit about your question However, before I bore you with my answer, I’d like to know: wasn’t it just a rhetorical one?
Dymitr

No, if you’ve got an answer, I’d love to hear it

Good
I am shortly after reading your post “Where are we going?” and I think that thread is best for answering
I think I should manage to formulate it till tomorrow…

Hi,

there has finally emerged a version worth a little experiment which I made yesterday. It requires two players. The first one starts by raising either left or right, or both hands. The response of the other person consists of giving the right name for the first player’s movement, accompanied simultaneously by own independent choice of any of these three possible movements (and then player one does the same). As an example: the first player raises the right hand, the second one answers saying ‘right’ and raises independently both hands at the same time, then player one says ‘both’ and raises for instance both hands, player two says ‘both’ and raises left hand, player one answers saying ‘left’ and raising something and so on… All the movements are independent, all the names depend on the movement of the partner. Players take care for the irregularity in the succession of movements.
Both poeple I played several steps of the above game with exhibited certain confusion and delay in giving response.

Dymitr