NLP Academy Forums

Hello everybody,

I was just thinking of a little (and perhaps unnecessary ) Christmas early gift for you and here it is
One can think of making variations of the known games. I experimented with Colours by Daryll Scott (see daryllscott.com) today and discovered another possible confusing twist. (By the way, I do not know any other easily accessible New Code game video presentation except his on Youtube – Daryll, chapeau bas if you ever read this).
Daryll’s idea was to make the player read aloud the written names of colours and react kinesthetically to the real colours which were used to write those names. Obviously, the names of colours and the colours used to write them should not always match.
I made my first experiment with a variation of Colours long time ago: it consisted in reversing verbal and kinesthetic responses, so I moved according to a written name and said the colour used to write that name. It was probably the first time I really knew nothing as I was playing Colours that way.
The variation I consider to be my Christmas tree little contribution is a tiny bit more subtle: you write the names of colours in a foreign language but you read them English. It does not exclude the possibility of reversals, of course
I wish you a very warmhearted Christmas and a lot of fun at the New Year’s Eve parties
Yours

Dymitr

Hi Michael,

One of my purposes of this letter is to give you an opportunity to change the kind of anchoring that I mentioned somewhere else.

Michael Carroll - 28 November 2009 01:42 AM

A limitation is that you seem intent in wanting to make your format fit all. This gives mininum felxibility. I have stated if a client wants more choice in third, take the HP to third. Other than that the extra step serves no purpose. The context first is marked with VAK circuits, the third is to identfy the playing space.

I am not going to declare that I will eat my shoes if you have already tried out any of the extended versions of NCCF I proposed, but I find it pretty unlikely that you have. Hope I am wrong…
You stated there is no purpose in the additional step in the NCCF ‘other than that’. I believe now, provided my understanding of your statement has been correct, that you were wrong.
The fact that I tend to contest your opinion may say more about me than its validity. So a little description of the experience that contributed to my belief could help you in determining what’s right and what is not.
On the 6th of June I started a ten days programme of limiting my negative emotions or, maybe, checking whether my emotions satisfy my expectations. Anyway, I decided to do my best in breaking down as early as possible all the possible destructive patterns that might occur.
I woke up pretty early that day in order to see the sunrise over the lake which is near the place I live. I decided to run around the lake (about 5-6 km). I really liked my emotions until… yeah, funny, there were not very many people there, I talked shortly to the guy I met – was fine – and then I saw a girl, young woman I had a strong liking to talk to but I met a strong inner resistance. Wasn’t so bad (the inner conflict, I mean), so I could still persuade myself that the day was a success. Nevertheless, I decided to apply NCCF to that context (I had discovered that it can influence also a personal history and work is if ‘backwards’ in time by changing the perception of memories perceived from the 1st position). A few days later I met Z, the person I had mentioned in one of the earlier posts here, and asked her to lead me through the NCCF. I believe she did her job pretty well. She was however not conscious of my additional intention of paying a visit after the completion of the format to the position from which I located my own picture on the floor. As I indeed did it, the picture I had previously constructed and visited ‘in person’, changed of course, but rather in the visual than kinesthetic modality, which is not surprising. It got as if ‘emptied’ somehow… No, the kinesthetics were present, too – I was astonished.
On the 15th of June I watched a film in which a man approached an attractive woman who didn’t know him and he quickly made the mutual interest possible. The acting in the movie was superb and it was very easy for me to see the similarity to the picture I had constructed during the format. Note – I may have seen such situations dozens of times, but I had never made an efficient connection between the events I had had seen and situations I had had taken part in, before I built this connection in HPS. As you may guess now, I soon put my observations into practice, and ‘soon’ means ‘on the 16th of June’ here. Jogging again, an attractive girl aggain, and the repetition of the pattern seen on the screen before. Maybe not an exact repetition, variation rather, but done in a very smooth and consistent way. We ended up chatting along her way home and made a friendly farewell – nothing special, really. It was nothing about seduction, either – my intention was simply to get rid of not feeling comfortable while thinking of doing something I wanted and eventually not doing it.
Now, you might think I would have achieved the same result without an additional step. I doubt an exact emulation for several reasons.
First of all, I can perceive the difference non-intellectually. I simply know that this time my reaction was different from all the other times. The perceptional astonishment occurred not only in the repeated first but also in the 3rd position, and for different reasons.
Secondly, only after this version can I recall a memory of heaving learned something from the external events and applying my observations to my own actions afterwards.
Thirdly, the feeling of change was present while watching the movie, too.
And fourthly, there is no theoretical reason to deny the benefits of the additional step I proposed, or at least I don’t see any such reasons. The HPS is utilised in this version of NCCF in two ways: the subject has HPS to their disposal whenever they are in the context in the future, and they have it also when anybody else around is in a similar context – basically for the purpose of speeding up the process of learning or imitation of effective patterns, if they occur.
The more detailed description of this form of NCCF you can find in the post starting with words ‘Suzy, I owe you’. Indeed, I do.
Looking forward to your reply after you experiment with the step I propose – maybe you have done it already. Anyway, I would be realy curious to learn why you used the phrase ‘serves no purpose’ the other day…
Yours
Dymitr

dymitr - 17 June 2010 08:11 PM

to lead me through the NCCF. I believe she did her job pretty well. She was however not conscious of my additional intention Dymitr

Were you conscious while playing the game?

What is the first step that you are proposing.

JC

Hi Jack
While playing the game not really. I just played (unless you equate the game with the format - of course at certain moment of the format I had to think of visiting Location 1 again).
The variant of NCCF I thought about originally but have never tried out so far is as follows (the quotation from Suzy’s thread, I quote full post here):

dymitr - 07 June 2010 09:35 PM

You’d add to my experience Deal.
The steps are:
1.
Location 1, in which you imagine yourself in the context from the 3rd position.
2.
Location 1 and 2: you associate the image of yourself with a particular place around you, looking at it from Location 1, and you step into your image which is in the place you have chosen, ie into Location 2. You stay there for a blink of an eye or two.
3.
Location 3: you do someting else somewhere else
4.
Location 4: play the game
5.
Location 1 and 2: having achieved the top state you visit Location 1, go straight to Location 2 from there and stay however long you want

Toby led a friend of his through a slightly different variant of NCCF before he disappeared from this forum - the direct results were interesting if not enlightenining. Unfortunately, I haven’t got to know the real life effects.

My intention is to observe whether there would be any difference in effectiveness of the transformed NCCF and whether the change would anyhow affect the process of dealing with unrelated future contexts. Especially interesting is the situation as one starts imagining themselves ‘in’ from outside, from the 3rd position, after identifying those contexts.

I wish you a very nice holiday
Hugs

Dymitr

And I tried the extended version only after I made this correction:

dymitr - 09 June 2010 08:39 AM

Suzy,
I owe you.
Thank to your request for the detailed description I’ve discovered the possibility of changing the order of locations in the step 5 above. You can actually divide it into two steps after the reversal. It means that after the classical version of NCCF, which ends in Location 2, the coach may ask the player to visit Location 1 again OR the player might want to visit that location themselves. It leaves actually the classical form of NCCF not distorted. I think I am going to try this addition out on myself today
Thanks Suzy
Dymitr

Hi Dymitr thank you for your swift response it is always great to hear new vibrant ideas.

dymitr - 18 June 2010 11:32 AM

5.
Location 1 and 2: having achieved the top state you visit Location 1, go straight to Location 2 from there and stay however long you wantDymitr

One thing I would watch out here is the intention of 3rd position (you detail this is location 1)
3rd position is a outsiders point of view of the context, the client is totally detached from the context totally unassociated. This promotes a clean perspective void of emotion and your own personal filters.

1st position (location 2) is where the client associates to the context and accesses all the VAK submordalities simultanously, they will have thier own emotion and personal filters attached to this context, this is where they want a difference in experience in or more choice.

Once the client reaches a high performance state there is not need to bring this to 3rd position as you are seeing yourself in that context totally dissassociated from an outsiders perspective. Whereas it is important that the HPS is applied to the context they want to change with the client totally associated with a new set of resources 1st position what you detail as location 2.

If I had a context where I wanted a difference of experience in I wouldn’t want to apply my High perfomance state to a observer I want it for me I want the difference of experence, this applies to 3rd and 1st position as well.

What are your thoughts?

Hi - you’re quick in responding, too
The version you quoted is the one I have never tried out yet. Actually, Toby came close to that version and he had some interesting results (you can find them in the early development of this thread). I think it is worth trying out just to see, whether our reasoning is or is not correct.
The version I have experienced (the one with the reversed order of locations in step 5, which can be also seen as the classical one with an addition of step 6 into location 1) seems to be in some ways superior to the classical one, as I tried to explain in my post to Michael.
Your thoughts?

I am not sure of the benefit myself in all honesty, due to the third position being a observers point of view dissociated from the context, I’d rather it be totally applied to the context where the client is totally associated.

What was the result on your testings?

How many people did you test it with?

I am not sure we are speaking about the same subject: which version of NCCF are you referring to (the classical counterpart being obvious)? If we however indeed speak about the same one, I’d propose the following: test it on anyone, possibly or even preferably yourself, and check, whether an occurrence of somebody else around you accidentally experiencing the same context you used in the format does not trigger HPS.

I’m discussing the one you are proposing. I’m not too why you would want to taint in my opinion the HPS by associating it to third position which is a outsiders perspective of the context??

Are you saying that HPS would be activated in the future while being around someone who is in the same context as you? it seems like the wrong approach to me and a a content imposition!

What is your experience of doing this in your testings with others??

Jack,
With this particular form none - if you speak about leading others through the extended format, ie with an additional step right after the completion of the classical form. I have however no reservations after my own experience.

Jack,
Have you tried any of the ‘wrong approach’ yet?
Best
Dymitr

Hi

I have used your approach, however my results were as I previously stated in the post, that I calibrated that applying the HPS to 3rd position was unessacary as in 3rd position we are in the position of an outsider looking in, who in the context is a outside looking in?

How has your testing gone?

Jack

Hi

Hi

I have used your approach

in what context, ie, were you the one who went through the extended version or you led somebody else?

, however my results were as I previously stated
in the post

Does it mean you have noticed absolutely no difference?

, that I calibrated that applying the HPS to 3rd position was
unessacary

Two questions: 1) in the light of what intention unnecessary?
2) Have you noticed any signs of inferiority of the extended version (except it is less than a minute longer)? What you have said so far suggests you have observed no difference, that is, no inferiority, either.

as in 3rd position we are in the position of an outsider looking
in, who in the context is a outside looking in?

Me After having gone through the extended version I became able to play with the 3rd position far more effectively. I have an impression it now substitutes playing the game again, to the certain extent at least.

How has your testing gone?

I have partially answered this question above. A surprising ‘side’ effect - in my own case - is that I have started finding myself intuitively observing my breathing over and over. It is nothing that I had planned before the aplication of the extended format.
You probably ask also about applying the patern with me being in the coach position. I have only done it once (or once and a half - complicated to explain) after our conversation. It is too early to estimate the real life effects. I have noticed however a little shift in the behaviour of a collegue of mine, AO, similar in a way to the phenomenon observed while working with A - you can find its description earlier in this thread. AO, anyway, moved from a state of a certain confusion after the game/context crash to the more firm and relaxed state after having observed the contest zone from the original starting position (you may call it Location1). Sorry for the lack of intersubjective terms here - they will probably arrive with time and experience.

Jack

Best
Dymitr

Hi Dymitr

I don’t have time today to reply properly to your post.

Give me a few days and I’ll be straight back to you
Have a great weekend

Fine for me
Have a grat weekend, too