NLP Academy Forums

dymitr - 17 June 2010 08:11 PM

to lead me through the NCCF. I believe she did her job pretty well. She was however not conscious of my additional intention Dymitr

Were you conscious while playing the game?

What is the first step that you are proposing.

JC

Hi Jack
While playing the game not really. I just played (unless you equate the game with the format - of course at certain moment of the format I had to think of visiting Location 1 again).
The variant of NCCF I thought about originally but have never tried out so far is as follows (the quotation from Suzy’s thread, I quote full post here):

dymitr - 07 June 2010 09:35 PM

You’d add to my experience Deal.
The steps are:
1.
Location 1, in which you imagine yourself in the context from the 3rd position.
2.
Location 1 and 2: you associate the image of yourself with a particular place around you, looking at it from Location 1, and you step into your image which is in the place you have chosen, ie into Location 2. You stay there for a blink of an eye or two.
3.
Location 3: you do someting else somewhere else
4.
Location 4: play the game
5.
Location 1 and 2: having achieved the top state you visit Location 1, go straight to Location 2 from there and stay however long you want

Toby led a friend of his through a slightly different variant of NCCF before he disappeared from this forum - the direct results were interesting if not enlightenining. Unfortunately, I haven’t got to know the real life effects.

My intention is to observe whether there would be any difference in effectiveness of the transformed NCCF and whether the change would anyhow affect the process of dealing with unrelated future contexts. Especially interesting is the situation as one starts imagining themselves ‘in’ from outside, from the 3rd position, after identifying those contexts.

I wish you a very nice holiday
Hugs

Dymitr

And I tried the extended version only after I made this correction:

dymitr - 09 June 2010 08:39 AM

Suzy,
I owe you.
Thank to your request for the detailed description I’ve discovered the possibility of changing the order of locations in the step 5 above. You can actually divide it into two steps after the reversal. It means that after the classical version of NCCF, which ends in Location 2, the coach may ask the player to visit Location 1 again OR the player might want to visit that location themselves. It leaves actually the classical form of NCCF not distorted. I think I am going to try this addition out on myself today
Thanks Suzy
Dymitr

Hi Dymitr thank you for your swift response it is always great to hear new vibrant ideas.

dymitr - 18 June 2010 11:32 AM

5.
Location 1 and 2: having achieved the top state you visit Location 1, go straight to Location 2 from there and stay however long you wantDymitr

One thing I would watch out here is the intention of 3rd position (you detail this is location 1)
3rd position is a outsiders point of view of the context, the client is totally detached from the context totally unassociated. This promotes a clean perspective void of emotion and your own personal filters.

1st position (location 2) is where the client associates to the context and accesses all the VAK submordalities simultanously, they will have thier own emotion and personal filters attached to this context, this is where they want a difference in experience in or more choice.

Once the client reaches a high performance state there is not need to bring this to 3rd position as you are seeing yourself in that context totally dissassociated from an outsiders perspective. Whereas it is important that the HPS is applied to the context they want to change with the client totally associated with a new set of resources 1st position what you detail as location 2.

If I had a context where I wanted a difference of experience in I wouldn’t want to apply my High perfomance state to a observer I want it for me I want the difference of experence, this applies to 3rd and 1st position as well.

What are your thoughts?

Hi - you’re quick in responding, too
The version you quoted is the one I have never tried out yet. Actually, Toby came close to that version and he had some interesting results (you can find them in the early development of this thread). I think it is worth trying out just to see, whether our reasoning is or is not correct.
The version I have experienced (the one with the reversed order of locations in step 5, which can be also seen as the classical one with an addition of step 6 into location 1) seems to be in some ways superior to the classical one, as I tried to explain in my post to Michael.
Your thoughts?

I am not sure of the benefit myself in all honesty, due to the third position being a observers point of view dissociated from the context, I’d rather it be totally applied to the context where the client is totally associated.

What was the result on your testings?

How many people did you test it with?

I am not sure we are speaking about the same subject: which version of NCCF are you referring to (the classical counterpart being obvious)? If we however indeed speak about the same one, I’d propose the following: test it on anyone, possibly or even preferably yourself, and check, whether an occurrence of somebody else around you accidentally experiencing the same context you used in the format does not trigger HPS.

I’m discussing the one you are proposing. I’m not too why you would want to taint in my opinion the HPS by associating it to third position which is a outsiders perspective of the context??

Are you saying that HPS would be activated in the future while being around someone who is in the same context as you? it seems like the wrong approach to me and a a content imposition!

What is your experience of doing this in your testings with others??

Jack,
With this particular form none - if you speak about leading others through the extended format, ie with an additional step right after the completion of the classical form. I have however no reservations after my own experience.

Jack,
Have you tried any of the ‘wrong approach’ yet?
Best
Dymitr

Hi

I have used your approach, however my results were as I previously stated in the post, that I calibrated that applying the HPS to 3rd position was unessacary as in 3rd position we are in the position of an outsider looking in, who in the context is a outside looking in?

How has your testing gone?

Jack

Hi

Hi

I have used your approach

in what context, ie, were you the one who went through the extended version or you led somebody else?

, however my results were as I previously stated
in the post

Does it mean you have noticed absolutely no difference?

, that I calibrated that applying the HPS to 3rd position was
unessacary

Two questions: 1) in the light of what intention unnecessary?
2) Have you noticed any signs of inferiority of the extended version (except it is less than a minute longer)? What you have said so far suggests you have observed no difference, that is, no inferiority, either.

as in 3rd position we are in the position of an outsider looking
in, who in the context is a outside looking in?

Me After having gone through the extended version I became able to play with the 3rd position far more effectively. I have an impression it now substitutes playing the game again, to the certain extent at least.

How has your testing gone?

I have partially answered this question above. A surprising ‘side’ effect - in my own case - is that I have started finding myself intuitively observing my breathing over and over. It is nothing that I had planned before the aplication of the extended format.
You probably ask also about applying the patern with me being in the coach position. I have only done it once (or once and a half - complicated to explain) after our conversation. It is too early to estimate the real life effects. I have noticed however a little shift in the behaviour of a collegue of mine, AO, similar in a way to the phenomenon observed while working with A - you can find its description earlier in this thread. AO, anyway, moved from a state of a certain confusion after the game/context crash to the more firm and relaxed state after having observed the contest zone from the original starting position (you may call it Location1). Sorry for the lack of intersubjective terms here - they will probably arrive with time and experience.

Jack

Best
Dymitr

Hi Dymitr

I don’t have time today to reply properly to your post.

Give me a few days and I’ll be straight back to you
Have a great weekend

Fine for me
Have a great weekend, too